There’s been some very interesting activity this month in the comments thread
about Summit Communications. Since I don’t expect anybody to plough through
more than 12,000 words of comments, I thought I’d summarise the discussion here.
And it really is a discussion: people pretty much are who they say they are.
I’ve got a list of their names and IP addresses after the jump if you don’t
believe me. The only time an IP address is repeated is when Marcos Melo, who
is an employee of Alvaro Llaryora, posts from the same IP address as Llaryora.
Which makes perfect sense.
Nearly all of the activity comes from employees or former employees of Summit
Communications or its sister companies. I’m not sure how or why they all seem
to have found my blog entry at the same time, but I assume there’s been some
emailing going on. In any case, the basic Summit Communications modus operandi
definitely emerges from the discussion.
It turns out that Summit Communications is a vehicle set up by a parent company
called AFA Press for the express purpose of selling advertising supplements
in the New York Times. AFA has other, similar companies for other publications:
the one for the Observer in the UK, for instance, is called Images, Words; the
one for USA Today is called United World; the one for the Daily Telegraph in
the UK is called PM Communications, and so on. The true center of operations
for all these companies is Madrid, although they’re mostly incorporated in the
UK.
The owner of all these companies is an Argentine called Alberto Llaryora –
the father of one of my commenters, Alvaro Llaryora. (In Argentine Spanish,
both "ll" and "y" are pronounced as "zh", so think
"zharzhora".)
Why does Llaryora have so many offshore companies, each with a very different
name? (Apart from any money-laundering he may or may not be doing, of course.)
The impression one gets from reading the comments is that it’s very simple:
the people working for these companies are so sleazy and unprofessional that
the governments and companies in the countries buying the advertorials are unlikely
to ever want to work with them a second time. So Llaryora simply sends a team
from a company with a name untarnished in that country instead.
And there’s another reason: the AFA sales team makes no effort whatsoever to
distingish themselves from the publication that they’re going to print the advertorial
in. The fact that each subsidiary works only for a single publication allows
them to say that they are "the exclusive partner of the New York Times"
or somesuch.
In fact, the sales technique at AFA seems to depend on their pretending to
be from the New York Times / USA Today / whoever. The AFA team always
includes a "journalist" who goes around attempting to get interviews
with senior officials and executives in the country, for a report on that country
to be published in the newspaper in question. Obviously, the fact that the report
will be an advertorial is not mentioned, and neither is the fact that the "journalist"
not an employee of, let alone a journalist for, the newspaper.
Similarly, when the advertorial is being sold, it is always sold on the basis
that the number of readers of the advertorial is the same as the number of readers
of the newspaper in question. Most advertisers who want a bound-out supplement
in the Sunday New York Times, say, are well aware that the vast majority of
readers will simply throw that supplement away unread. But AFA sales people
present themselves as selling advertising (little display units within the advertorials)
against New York Times / USA Today editorial with its enormous circulation and
readership numbers.
AFA seems to specialize in employing young, hungry sales people with no previous
experience in the media business. One of them phoned me after being given a
job offer, wanting to find out what I knew about the company; another left a
comment on my blog. The person I talked to had only sales experience well outside
the media industry, but was being offered a job as a "journalist":
writing skills, of course, were unimportant, as the only thing that matters
is making sales. These kids can make a lot of money by lying to advertisers,
and no one ever discourages them from doing so – quite the opposite. They
justify their actions by saying that they’re working in corrupt countries, and
that if you want to make money in such countries you have to be part of that
corrupt system.
Generally, it would seem, the male "journalist" will go through the
motions of interviewing the minister/executive in question; at the end of the
interview, a very pretty female "director" will then approach the
interviewee to buy some advertising against the interview. (Of course, if the
advertising isn’t bought, then the interview won’t appear, but that’s never
mentioned.) In the case of government ministers, the "director" will
ask the minister for a letter giving his "support" to the publication,
and encouraging the companies in that country to cooperate with the reporter.
The minister thinks he’s simply opening doors for the "reporter" to
be able to do his interviews, but of course the "director" helpfully
explains to the executives that in order to cooperate as the minister wants
them to do, they will have to buy advertising.
The technique works so well that former AFA employees have gone on to set up
their own companies doing exactly the same thing: see Vega Media, Impact Media,
and Media Plus, which seems to have an especially low reputation. There’s a
whole sector of these companies, it turns out: Global Press, for instance, run
by Alberto Llaryora’s brother Rodolfo Llaryora, would seem to have the Washington
Post and Fortune Magazine locked up. There certainly seems to be de facto
exclusivity: only one company ever seems to produce advertorials for any given
publication. Does Summit Communications pay the New York Times extra for being
its only advertorial provider? How else can one explain the seeming absence
of any competition in the NYT?
I’m sure that the New York Times, alongside all the other highly-regarded publications
in bed with AFA Press, spends as little time as possible asking about the genesis
of the advertorials which it prints. Just as the millions of people who eat
at McDonald’s really don’t want to know the details of how their meal is made.
This is the real difference between these publications, on the one hand, and
Euromoney, on the other: Euromoney, when it sells supplements, does so under
its own name, and in the knowledge that if the client is unhappy he’ll never
buy another one. The NYT et al don’t sell supplements, they leave that to others,
who are happier to burn their clients because they’ll likely never return to
that country anyway.
I’d be very interested to learn whether New York Times journalists working
in third-world countries ever find themselves battling ministers or executives
who think they’ve dealt with the New York Times in the past, and who have very
bad memories of the whole encounter. Maybe every time they do, they should complain
to the advertising department about the stuff which is being done in the NYT’s
name. That, in turn, might drive AFA Press and its subsidiaries to higher standards
of conduct.
More likely, an increase in the media-savvyness of third world ministers and
executives will force Llaryora and his employees to be more transparent; from
reading the comments on my original post, that might be happening already. Instead
of misleadingly selling an ad against an interview in the New York Times –
something which anybody who knows the NYT knows can never be done – AFA
might start talking more about the usefulness of newspaper supplements in terms
of turning around the image of a tarnished country. Chances are, of course,
that if the people buying into these supplements knew how effective they really
were, they would never take part. But at least some of the sleaziness in the
industry would be minimised.
Commenters and IP addresses after the jump.
| March 20 | Stefan Geens | 85.226.193.223 |
| March 20 | Lance Knobel | 71.249.17.70 |
| April 8 | Ray Corbis | 62.68.61.2 |
| June 1 | Thierry De Pins | 87.217.13.44 |
| July 6 | flimsy | 62.56.236.174 |
| July 7 | Mark | 80.25.234.40 |
| July 7 | Hugh Janus | 83.44.24.179 |
| July 7 | Veronica Fuentes | 83.35.204.167 |
| July 7 | Stefan Geens | 62.253.128.12 |
| July 7 | Renata (aka flimsy) | 62.56.236.174 |
| July 7 | Southampton’s Number 7 | 195.167.131.33 |
| July 7 | Stefan Geens | 62.253.128.12 |
| July 7 | Southampton’s Number 7 | 195.167.131.33 |
| July 7 | Stefan Geens | 62.253.128.12 |
| July 7 | bihboon | 81.192.191.75 |
| July 7 | Jorge Rosi | 83.34.209.175 |
| July 7 | G. | 69.194.13.47 |
| July 9 | Clemente Ordierez | 81.52.161.74 |
| July 10 | Alvaro Llaryora | 217.127.229.150 |
| July 10 | cause for concern | 86.140.215.182 |
| July 10 | Marcos Melo | 217.127.229.150 |
| July 12 | Valerie Favier | 83.202.97.233 |
| July 12 | Southampton’s Number 7 | 195.167.131.33 |
| July 12 | Marcos Melo | 217.127.229.150 |
| July 12 | Zeb | 195.172.183.10 |
| July 12 | valerie favier | 83.202.97.233 |
| July 12 | PomKa | 62.135.101.197 |
| July 12 | RAQUEL PICORNELL | 212.0.149.213 |
| July 13 | Benj (aka bihboon) | 196.217.242.241 |
| July 14 | Flavio G | 82.205.215.177 |
| July 14 | G | 69.194.13.54 |
| July 14 | Romeo | 200.31.172.4 |
| July 16 | Clemente Ordierez | 83.53.158.219 |
| July 17 | thermidor | 81.202.46.133 |
| July 19 | Moh | 196.200.83.51 |
| July 19 | Benj (aka bihboon) | 196.217.240.125 |
| July 19 | james | 86.1.67.234 |
| July 21 | jj | 212.80.189.229 |
Hi,
I am quite happy that I found your website. I quit my job at AFA this monday. The past four months I experienced the most unethical business behaviour I have ever seen. And I am happy to be honest to myself and my values, priciples and believes. I should have know from the beginning that this industry was a whole scam. However, I leraned a lot and will use this experience to do honest jobs.
G.
Hi,
I have been to their ‘brainwash’ selective training camp in Madrid and I cannot understand how naive young people looking for an exciting job opportunity can be.
Why does a company need to sell itself in such a way?
It cries out loud that the business is involved in shady activities.
I hope somebody will stop this.
C
As many of you I have been working for one of these companies.
I knew since the beginning what kind of business is it and the kind of people I was going to deal with. During the trainee everything is said between lines during a 2 to 10 days brain washing process levels of true and acceptance:
Once you accept you are not a real journalist, then they say you are for the advertising sales, then you learn that you have to reach the customer in any possible way (bad… specially for a girl), at the end you get to know that there are some corrupt ways to sale expensive publicity.
An exciting international career?
“Living for 3 months in one of the most dangerous countries and try to sell bad quality advertorials, earning a non expatriate salary” is very different of being an international reporter and traveling around the world.
In resume:
You are not protected by any country law.
You can not demonstrate your experience because the company won’t exist when you will need to do so.
You have a minimal emergency health insurance. (Not social security)
Don’t need to worry about what are going to do with the money (after not paying taxes after two years) because it won’t be too much.
Hi,
I worked for AFA for 11 years,from 1986 to 1998 so as you can imagine, I know it inside out. At the beginning, I went through two stomach ulcers just from the moral wrongness of what I felt I was doing. Believe me, now they may have prestigious publications like the NYT as their media outlet for advertorials,but when I started it was trashier,tabloid-style newspapers and we were supposed to sell these $50,000 ads to businessmen who would only use those newspapers, as one put it,”to wrap fish”. I could tell you a million stories corroborating your article and the comments posted….unfortunately, I don’t have the luxury of having enough time to do it but someday I WILL sit down and write maybe a tell-all book…..I worked in 23 countries and did over 30 advertorials during my time in AFA so there is much to say.
I am glad that somehow this is becoming public knowledge. It is a mystery to me how this advertorial scheme (or scam as some may call it) still works and I am glad I got out of it. Trying to look at the glass half full, I can say that my years of trekking around the globe and fighting it out in each country have contributed greatly to who I am today. Once you have managed to sell a $50,000 ad in an obscure company that makes tractors in the middle of Hungary (to name just one example), you feel like you can do anything. So at least my confidence was built up and that helped me in my present career,but I do agree the shadier side of the business is predominant and it is a business I would not want to re-enter ever again.
T, how come it took you 12 years of your life, during which you learnt so much to realize that you have selling ads in newspapers which only use to to “wrap fish”!! I think you are a very very slow learner. So I cannot see how much you learnt. Perhaps you are different person but a far worse human being I would say.
DG
Daniel, you like to always look at the negative side in everything,don’t you? I knew the job wasn’t my “ideal job” but it paid very well for a 20-something year old person that would usually not earn that kind of money in a “normal” job.You get used to the lifestyle,you see people around you your age who are slaving away at 9 to 9 jobs and you keep at it.Your criticism surprised me,I thought you’d be more sympathetic but I can see you’re full of bad feelings and the only way you can express them is to fling criticism at me.I wish you could have been in my shoes,that is really the only way you can express any judgement.Anyway,given the “warm reception” I have received,I will refrain from commenting on these blogs any further….all I wanted was to provide an additional forum for any constructive comments or questions there may have been…not a full-fledged attack…unbelievable….go and unleash your venom elsewhere…don’t blame me for working somewhere where I was paid well while my country (Spain) had a job crisis that left most people on meager unemployment checks. Another positive thing is that I met the main players in each country I visited and I was able to learn from their interviews…brilliant brains who just by meeting them enriched my life too. Anyway,why I should try to explain myself to someone as venomous as you is beyond me so that will be my final entry for today. Have a glass of wine to cheer you up or something and analyze your own life afterwards to see if your choices have been perfect or not…but don’t berate others, for goodness’ sake!It just makes you look dumber than you are (which is pretty dumb to start with, by your comments).
There is one last comment I wish to make before exiting this forum. My comments on AFA,the company I worked for, were exclusively dedicated to the people that run AFA. Other companies that at first glance do the same thing have branched out from AFA, but thankfully,their moral standards and the quality of their work has risen way above the AFA standards. Their products DO help countries that are struggling to create a more serious image because they are well written and published in much more serious publications than the ones I used to work for (the ones used to “wrap fish”).
I can think of several examples: Vega Media and Impact Media are the ones that come to mind first because I have either worked for them (Impact) or know people working in them now (Vega Media). Another publication that publishes beautiful reports that have a high impact on the right readers is The European,for instance….there are companies out there who are really worth working for nowadays and who practice high business ethics. I wish they had been around when I was in AFA but it took the people who formed those companies years of going through “AFA-style” training to perfect and improve their product to today’s standards. Think about it: If Vega Media, Impact Media or The European did not put out quality products that were useful and if they did not keep their employees happy, how could they be so succesful for so long? When AFA was around, they were not put under the looking-glass as today’s companies are so they could go about their business quietly. Today’s companies are held to a much higher standard and they are scrutinized more carefully. I never meant to offend anyone in the “new companies”, my comments were exclusively towards AFA and I wish to clear this up. If I could have worked for a “better” company, this may well have been the field of choice for my whole professional career, but when I left AFA in January 1998, a series of personal circumstances made me look for a job in another field and I found I was succesful in that field too, so I never thought about going back. I hope this explains my earlier posts,thank you for reading this and I am sure it will add new ingredients to this forum so that people can avoid generalizing about this business and look at each company as a different entity that does business in totally different ways.
I am looking for a career in global sales. I am interested in extensive travel for long periods of time.
Despite shady selling techniques, would anyone actually recommend working for Summit Communications or the other companies mentioned above?
If not, do you know of any similar types of jobs, with “legitimate” corporations?
Thanks.
Hi everybody,
I worked for 4 months for Media Plus Consulting and it is exactly how Mr. Salomon described it. We were thrown in a middle eastern country trying to selling these ads for Fox5 to government and companies.We realize while we were there they in the past projects, that nobody mentioned us, they sold ads without even shooting the programme..a lot of people were angry at us and they understood that even if we were from a different comapny (another name but same stuff), we were part of the same scam. It was actually dangerous. I decided to quit right away as soon as I realized what was going on. Media Plus thretened me askingme to leave the country the same day because I was dangerous for the market..
If you apply for working at Media Plus just be aware that it is unfair, dishonest and you have to lie in order to sell the ads. That’s their policy.
incredible reading guys(guys used in the sense my fellow human beings not in any un Pc way)
i have had the privilage of working for one of the compaies mentioned and ethics is an incredible subject. can every one honesty say that they re always ethical? in your own lives. ok i am guessing the point to be bounced back is. dude its a totally diffrent ball game. but reall guys it is not. Media plus is a verygood company to work for. and the CEO is a very intelligent business man. and thats what it is business i have never been told o lie and we are very honest and still sell.
Ciao tutti
Hello, Felix and everyone. I found this website while I was looking for info about AFA Press. I read their job offer in the website of monster.it and I immediately sniffed I couldn’t trust. When a job offer sounds like they are giving you the easy way to richness and carreer, I am always suspicious (everyone should read the novel Pinocchio, in my opinion). I wasn’t able to find further info about Alvaro Llaryora. It’s like he was erased from google. Anyway thank you for the information you gave us, felix. And thanks also to all the people who posted their experience here.
Young people looking for a job should have a sort of sentinel. It is jungle out there.
Thanks for all the perspectives and comments on AFA. I saw the sales job post on Infojobs.net few days ago, planned to apply but this saved me going through all the trouble. Ciao.
I accepted a job with Media Plus Consulting and the day before I flew out to Belgium for training; I discovered this blog which was more than enough for me to absolutley change my mind. I am literally blown away to think that such a company exists…for the love of money ;-(..e-mail me if you need more info..I have lots!
cheers
JB
Back on the West Side
I tell you guys, I read absolutely every word of the blog and i have to say that I am surprised, i have worked for many years with Impact Media and not only they have a great ethic but always try to have all clients satisfied, keep on their words and are VERY trustworthy. YOu can check it out. http://www.impact-media.com
xx
hi all, i had the same experience as Romi. I used to work in a sales company on a high level which also promises everything and while the CEO is a billionaire, people are being treated like…well badly, and they sell outright lies. My manager over there once told me: if it’s too good to be true, well then probably it IS too good to be true. Somebody pointed me in the direction of AFA Press, I saw the website and to me the site looks like a sect. It’s very very vague and immediately alarm bells started ringing in my head. I must admit- the add sounds great, travelling around the world, excellent renumeration, meeting top people in all places. And I already wanted to apply, but something stopped me and I googled the company name and came on here. Thank you for giving inside tips. I have worked once already for a company that treats its employees as slaves and once for a company that is in fact a scam and I realized this is not what I want to do. I am a human being and I will treat others as I would like to be treated. And I certainly wouldn’t like to be cheated…
I have worked for Media Plus for several years (since 1999) as a field sales executive/journalist, as a trainer and as a recruiter.
I think the main thing to keep in mind when reading this blog and trying to form your own opinion about these companies is that they tend to hire young adults because they have the flexibility to travel 330 days per year. Unfortunately, many of these young adults have not had any “real world” sales experience and end up getting jaded. I’m sure after a year or two back in the US selling for a US firm, they will realize how good they had it with MP.
That being said, here is some basic sales training advice: A sales pitch is not a lie. One could say that sales trainings “brainwash” the candidate but I believe that it is done in a GOOD way so he/she can believe in their product and sell it. The sales training that you do for MP has the same basic effect as any other sales training I’ve done for other jobs. You learn to talk the talk of that company, believe in the product and basically regurgitate that information in a convincing way to sell your product. The same goes with overcoming objections. My favorite example to use is when talking about creating urgency is the shoe store example. If you are at a shoe store trying on a pair of shoes and you think you want to buy them but you tell the store clerk that you want to “think about it” the typical response they will give you is “I would love to give you all the time in the world to think about this but I just wanted to let you know that this is the LAST pair in your size.” The sales clerk just created an urgency for you to buy the product NOW. Is this a lie? No, it’s part of the game of sales.
Last, MP has been working with several reputable publications for over 15 years. If we were doing anything unethical we would be losing these contracts, not gaining more. In recent years we have gained contracts with magazines and we products segments for major tv stations.
I can not speak for Impact Media, AFA or any other companies mentioned in this blog as I have never worked with them in the past. This comment only pertains to Media Plus.
I just need to point out a few things…..
1st — employees go into countries under different names, because each time they are selling content for different publications/titles. These titles — like New York Times, New York Daily News have entered into binding contracts with these companies like Media Plus, and have been working together for years. Why would such a reputable company work with Media Plus if it wasn’t reputable itself?
2nd —We have never at Media Plus been allowed to say we work for the title that the report will go into. Our business cards all have the company’s name on it that produces the report. We are not allowed to tell clients we work for New York Times/Daily News etc, not on the phone, not in meetings, never. We do present the title in our presentations though to showcase where their editorial and ad will be published. And I have never, never called myself a “journalist”. Our business cards always say “project coordinator” or “project manager” if you’re a manager.
3rd —Media Plus employs young hungry people with no sales experience bc they are just that: young enough not to want families and are able to travel non stop, and hungry enough to motivate themselves in the field when there are no managers or water cooler gossip to make sure they are doing their jobs
4th-Of course we use recommendations from ministers. Ministers want these promotional reports to be done so the positives of their country can come out and if it can help at all with FDI, IMF loans or any form of investment, its great for the government. We do their work for them. And they always, always know that the reports need to be funded by advertising in order to happen. We do include important editorials even if they havnt bought advertising, to give the full picture of the country.
5th-to the girl who said you don’t make money……you must have gone through the job with the same negative attitude you are displaying on this blog. No other job could you make this kind of money, tax free, at 23 yrs old.
6th — you defiantly learn a TON from traveling, meeting ministers and CEOs (who later become your friend if your one of the consultants who don’t lie, don’t act “shady” and don’t pressure people to do anything they don’t want to do), you learn about every industry and what it takes to well, on your own, to make things happen. Only the hungriest, ethical, smartest people survive….and if that’s not you, then you prob quit or were fired and then decided to write on this blog to bring the rest of the industry down.
Hi! I just got this link from a friend of mine as I am invited for the assessment center of AFA. I would really appreciate if anybody could write to me about his personal experience with AFA. From what I have read, I am kind of shocked! Thanks for any comment! kati
I know and speak only of AFA press as I went to their training and worked for them for almost 6 months. And though I don’t think this business is necessarily unethical, the folks at AFA indeed are scumbags. It should be possible to produce promotional reports with hard salesmanship and remain courteous and ethical. But that is not the culture at AFA. With very few exceptions people are poorly educated and it feels like they’d steal you’r wallet if you let them. Somebody mentioned above that they’re like a sect. In fact they are very close-knit and new hires are essentially used and flushed. Ever wonder why they keep a perpetual hiring policy in place? Indeed they’ll use your cheap trainee-labor and, unless you really become one them, you’ll soon be out. And they’ll keep hiring the uninformed. (To become one them it is necessary to smoke and void your sense of morality). Most people didn’t go to college to be around this sort of people, but you get to travel and it is an intense experience.
I also used to work for AFA Press’ slave-drivers. I can completely relate to the comments about inhumane treatment and a complete lack of moral. Does anyone know how many of these “press comunication agencies” exist and what they are called? – to warn future, young and naive career-seekers.
Yes. They are opportunistic and it is the worst possible work culture. But Salmon’s speculation about being in bed with the NYT is a joke. Anyone in the business can get an advertorial in there, even with the quality standars of these people. The people suck but the business is quasi-legit. It works well for those who are on the inside of the company, like picornell, and who enjoy serving the corrupt. Thats pretty much it.
I should add that trainees are basically underpaid clerical workers. that’s also true
Hi. I have worked for Media Plus a few years ago. I remained about a year in the company, conducting 3 different projects. My name card said “business journalist” not “project coordinator” or so. I had several fake press cards by the way. With regards to the use of minister letters and the habits of this company, you may visit this site: http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/bn/Qnamibia-justice-us.RDXw_DSA.html
Mr Thieu Cuypers, his sister and his plant-like girlfriend will teach you how to bullshit people. Even an ex-employee mentioned that during a presentation he was making to the glory of the company… my god. Training was real brainwash but it hasn’t worked on me. Employees turnover is about half to 2/3 coming in/leaving MP every six months. And it is not because of the job difficulties… it is because of the shitty minds of the managers. Finally, the advertorials they produce is of the lowest quality. I really wandered if after all these years of bullshiting, Thieu Cuypers and Co have actually started to believe in their own lies.
Oops, i forgot one thing: Media Plus also asked me to open bank accounts under my name, in foreign countries, in order to send company cash for the project. Very often the amounts were far too high and I had to fly the cash back as in some countries I was not allowed to make international money transfer with such a “young” account. Really guys, run away from them or you might turn out to be just the same. The ones I know who remained in this company for a few years are just disgusting people.
Yeahbaby,
You are absolutely right. Oh the cash deals and the utter disrespect for employees! Undue responsibilities and unscrupulous preassures! But really, if you look at it there is certainly tax fraud and contractual breaches. A quick lawsuit, perhaps in the UK might quickly push them off the NYT partner list.(Reference to AFA Press which started what they think is ‘hard ball for bums’).
WHO WANTS TO FILE AND QUCKLY SERVE AFA’S REGISTERED AGENT IN NY?
MY DAUGHTER HAD WORKED FOR ONE OF THE AGENCIES CONNECTED WITH AFA. SHE CONFIRMED THE ABOVE AND IT WORRIES ME.
I WILL ADD THEIR USE OF FEMALES AS SEDUCTRESSES TO GET CORRUPT MONEY FROM THIRD WORLD LEADERS. SOME WOMEN, BY HER ACCOUNT ARE DO EXCHANGE SEXUAL FAVORS.
I WILL GAGE THE RESPONSE HERE THAN WE CAN DO THIS VERY QUICKLY AND CHEAPLY.
Hi,
interesting reading your experiences guys. You know, I always say, it is you the one that has to make the difference. AFA style, maybe you don’t like it, you had bad experiences, whatever..and I respect that you have your own opinion guys. But let me tell you a couple of things:
1. I started working very young. At the same time I got 2 degrees, a master degree and for 6 years before discovering AFA I had great salaries, great job experiences and never did inmoral things, and unethical things as you call them all the time. I didn’t do them because it is not my style, and I would never belong to a company that asks me to do that. I managed a company and learnt a lot. When I thought it was time to run away of traditional ways of life, friends getting married and the city becoming to small for me, I applied for AFA. I never sold before, people used to come to buy things from me, so I wasn’t sure if I would be able to do the job properly. This job, is teaching me to sell..a knowledge that is priceless.
2. I have already done 3 projects, all our interviewees are aware of the promotional aspect, and I don’t tell lies, if you want to have a strong presence in this report that is a suplement you take it or not. And “surprisingly” they are taking it, and they seem very happy with our job. Now is my duty to make sure that the arworks meet their expectations, that the report will be published on time, that the copies will be sent..etc etc..giving a good project guys is easy, and you don’t have to tell lies or be corrupt. So what is all that shit?
3. Another thing..all these statements I am reading about this supplements being useless, and bla bla bla. I guess your frustration comes from the fact that you don’t have a proper communication background, and nobody informed you about the strength of building country image through this supplements and giving the opportunity to this poor people to have positive exposure besides the bad press they are used to get everyday. Have you read about the long life of a supplement? do you know that printed media are the more respected and powerful tools of communication?. I learnt that in the uni, where I studied for 8 years. As you can see, I am not a nerd, I have education, I tell you I am smart, an independent woman, and yes, I am having also sex in these wonderful projects. But sorry to dissapoint you guys, I bring to my bed the one that turns me on, since the product that I am selling is so good, that I don’t need to sell my body to convince them. By the way, the Mc donald’s example is is..I can’t describe it. You really believe that medias such as NYT sign an agreement and don’t give a shit about what they are distributing?. Cough cough..
4. What AFA does with their money, is not my problem, and is not yours. I don’t give a shit if they spend all the millions they make buying flowers. How can you dare to talk about it? is not your bloody business. The business is, that I am learning a lot, visiting places I would have never been in before, meeting beautiful people.. Developing my skills, getting to know myself better, learning how to deal with a team, feeding myself with culture and knowledge, and the best part..I get paid, I get commisions, I live like a princess, and my dietas allow me to travel and to give extra salaries to all the people that for a couple of months thanks to our projects have the chance to earn enough money to feed their families for 3 years. It sounds amazing ah?? it is not a slogan, is reality and that is what happens in the projects I have seen.
Before saying bye, and inviting you not to generalize and not to treat us as if we were retarded people managed by AFA, I tell you..I don’t get extra money or better destinations for saying this. I just get the satisfaction of giving a fair testimony of what AFA is. Then you can be a robber, a lier, a bastard and steal everthing you can when you go to a country, but that is up to you, if you follow your common sense and you take advantage of all the facilities you have with AFA, you have a great career and end up contributing to help countries that deserve to be known by their potential. I believe in it, and I have no regrets.
I also have stomach problems, and I took the decision of working for 18 hours a day. Nobody forced me..did someone force you guys?. Talking about slavery shocked me..they are far enough not to know how many hours I am working. It’s me the one that understands that the more you work..the more you sell. Sorry I am too ambitious, I think this is what you lack and makes you have a distorted image of reality.
Mr. Felix, you want to communicate people your experience? then communicate. But be aware, there is a big difference between communicating and spitting shit.
A happy AFA member somewhere in the world, contributing to make a lot of people happy
Hi everybody,
As Kati I am also invited to the Assessment Day of Afa. Well, I suppose I was min or less sceptical when I read the job offer but now I’m quite shocked!
Thank you all for your comments, you are opening the eyes of many graduates as myself.
To KATIE: did you finally participate to the Assessment? If you did, how was it?
Lay
Hi guys,
I have to thank you all for your comments as I was just about to go to the AFA Assessment day tomorrow in Regent Street but I decided to do some searching about the company before hand. It surprised me the way they interviewd and how simple it was to get my CV apporved. Also, my first suspicious came out when they asked my for a CV with photograph…. i know i’m a bit cautious but asking for a photograph in your CV is not something that pleases me.
After readin this information I decided not to go for it, although I regret all those who had to go throught the experience. Now, there’s something else that intrigues me: how come a company with such reputation is allowed to be represented in Graduate Fairs, recruitment agencies, such us (toplanguages( etc????? I think the recruitment agencies should also protect themselves and the potential candidates by doing a little bit of searching and become more aware of their clients. I will no longer use Toplanguages website as a result of their lack of professionalism for putting an agency with such reputation on their webpage and I’m disappointed that most of the Graduate Fairs allow AFA to be represented knowing that this can be a problem for new graduates and young people in their careers, by deluding them. These Graduate Fairs are also respoonsible to assure that they provide secure information and reliable companies for their candidates.
thanks
s
A,
You are absolutely right. The standard for the graduate fairs is almost non-existent. And they are con-artists, they lie to sell and pride themselves on lying to sell their way into anything.
But they can still claim no real fault. I think the guy who suggested just filing suit on th right track. There is plenty of good reasons for it. I wont go into now.
Yeah, the picture thing is to see if you are not black, or another ethnic who would not appear rightly European and condescending to con ministers of poor countries who are flush with public cash and large egos.
The many agencies they hope will diffuse legal reaction.
In the meantime it is certainly easy to just write to the job-fairs and let them know.
AFA needs to keep hiring so they can keep exploiting. This forum indeed is awesome.
To the AFA Girl Yelling Above,
WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR MONEY IS CALLED TAX EVASION. AND COURTS WOULD BE INTERESTED. SWEETIE, ITS A CRIME. AND NOW YOU KNOW.
THEY THINK THEY ARE TOO SPREAD OUT FOR LEGAL ACTION. I AM VOLUNTEERING TO CHANGE THAT AS I HAVE INDICATED BEFORE.
I WILL NAME AN ATTORNEY WHO CAN SPEAK CONFIDENTIALLY TO ALL WHO HAVE BEEN DAMAGED OR HAV INFORMATION ON AFA AND LOYOLA AND THE REST OF THE GANG.
I want a job at AFA,
I am Swiss but I’m not currently living in Europe, will they still review my CV and give me a response????
Do you know of any other agencies with similar job opportunities as AFA.
Can someone please mention their names and website if possible?
Currently I have a desk/sales job in a grade-A multinational in Asia, It pays very well but I’m sick of looking at a computer all day long. Life is too short to be stuck in a cubicle and meeting foney people an reviewing protest blogs….
Help me out will you…
Thanks
MR-E
MR-E,
Are you Mr. E or are you MARCOS MELO?
You come to this blog, where people are telling you the truth about afa the quality of tehur people and ask for a job?!!! Right!???
YOU ARE HAVING PROBLEM RECRUITING SLAVES.
BY THE WAY, AT AF YOU LOOK AT A COMPUTER 90% OF THE TIME
anybody who wanted a job would not mention it here. they’d go to the websites.
YOU ARE LOSING SLAVES BECAUSE THE TRUTH COMES OUT.
LAWSUIT PEOPLE: THEY GO BY CHERRYWOOD HOLDING, THE UMBRELLA OF THE LITTLE ONES, WHICH ARE A DIME A DOZEN.
CHERRYWOOD HOLDING IS INCORPORATED IN PANAMA.
THEY DO THIS SO THEY CAN KILL THE SMALLER COMPANIES AS THEY GET SUED BUT KEEP ALL ELSE IN A TAX HAVEN INSOLATED FROM CIVIL SUIT.
I RECOMMEND JUST TELLING THE TRUTH AS WE ALL DO HERE AND WRITING DIRECTLY TO THE PUBLICATIONS. THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THESE PUBLICATIONS CAN BE AFFECTED. SHOULD BE AFFECTED.
Wow, what an interesting debate! I’m a late comer but I bring in a lot of AFA knowledgde. I worked for them for 2 years, which is ussually the maximum anyone stands. Much of this is true, but the women that work for them, as you know, are pretty.
Yes, they pimp the women out. This is a cornerstone of their busness, using women.
Thanks for all these interesting comments! I have never worked for Afa so I donߥt want to give any wrong comments, but I was very close to accept the sales job.
I went to their selective week and was under the last 6 candidates. I can just say that everything seemed to be very unprofessional. We were only 2 girls at the end and I think the prettier you are the better are your chances. To give an example, I speak 4 languages fluently, have lived and worked in many countries abroad and applied for the job because I AM interested in social economic isses, 3rd word countries and love reading about politics etc. But they didnߥt seem to care about that at all, I didnߥt even have to talk about my CV/experiences.
The other girl was accepted – 2 languages, university not finished yet, no work experience, as she told me she was not interested in socio-economic issues and politics at all, etc. BUT PRETTY.
Anyway, you have to kind of “play” the sales pitch in front of 3-4 people and they decide whether they accept you or not at AFA. I did this, with a successful sales pitch, but they told me that they couldnߥt decide about my case, half of them wanted me to “accept”, the others were not convinved. So I had to do the whole thing again – how unprofessional is that? Then they told me no. At nite there was a party going on, all Afa people drugged (the biggest cocaine lovers on earth, I guess they spend all their money on that), and there I was told that I should insist to get the job – they wanted to make me a new proposal within the next days, because they were coming to my city anyways and we could meet up and talk. So I flew back to my hometown and on the arranged date they never called me. The next day I got a mail from them asking for my tel. number, saying that they had left it at the office and couldnߥt contact me in my city. ??? How can sb be so unprofessional …
As you see I only had a short experience with Afa people but I have the impression that everybody there must be “cool, naice and pretty”. Maybe I am wrong, again I have never worked for them. But as I got another good job offer, I decided to never get in touch with them again. So my experience with Afa ends here.
All, Recently graduated here in Holland and the jobs at Media Plus seemed quite interesting. After applying i decided to have a look on the net and happily found this interesting discussion. I have to agree with one of the earlier comments posted: “if it sounds too good to be true it probably is”. Reading the rest of the comments i will in no want to be a part of this kind of immoral&sleazy organization.
So to all of you thank you for posting this messages! This is the only way for young people to be warned about these kind of scams.
Unfortunately the job search is on again but anything better than wasting time on Media Plus.
Regards,
from sunny Holland!
Miss X:
The sleazy and the cocaine thing are there, but your entire post shows how willing you were to give them a benefit of doubt and chances, to the very end. That’s what job-seekers will do, and are treated poorly in part because of it.
I sympathize but really, just attending their Madrid thing with that Neurotic bufoon should be sufficient evidence that you are not working where your family and friends expect you to be, much less in decent company. Same for MediaPlus by the way, a spinn-off.
Does anybody remember their training freak?
http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:w2PkUKv4mI8J:madamearcati.blogspot.com/2006/10/indys-odd-business-bedfellow.html+ray+corbis&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3
I spent 2 weeks in prison! Because of them! In africa, one of the minister asked me of much money we were taking out of the country! At night 2 men took us! When I called the office, nobody came to pick us up
8% of 500 000$ is it worst it?? I had to pay 10 000$
to get out!!!!
So don’t bother with Media Plus?
–
Can’t speak about the other companies mentioned, but I can say that the phony losers at Media Plus are not worth your time. They will definitely ask you to conduct unethical business and lie to people. They’re shady!
“I used to work for these unsavory characters. I commend you are on you research. This is as you mention a network of companies all dircted by one extremelly paranoid and mafia Argentine named Alberto LLyarora. The purpose of creating so many companies is to deceive the governments he licks ass to in order to send back team after team but without having to explain the terrible quality of the reports he produces. This man is worth an investigation and should be in jail!For more info, send me an email”. ~ Thierry De Pins
But some of them have been jailed.
This is super important for anyone considering work for AFA. They do not get health care for trainees. They’ll only pay for your healthcare after 3 months and if you get hurt someone is going to have to foot the bill. This is of major importance for all newcomers.
Afa hires only those with European looks. That’s why they ask for a picture along with resumee. If you are black don’t bother.
THer is one darker girl. She is really pretty. But that’s the exception. Usually they have to try to be white in 3rd world and want pretty girsl that close deals.
I have just quit Media Plus. I contracted Malaria and they didnt provde care.
Hello,
I don’t work for AFA or Media press or similar and I have no reason nor need to be in favor or against those companies. At first sight, I just found fascinating the kind of work they do and I would like to know more.
It is actually true thought that some of those look a bit “strange”…no telephone numbers, vague web sites,…
On the other hand, I read all the past posts and I have also found a lot of anger and naïveté. It really seems to me that many people who expressed their bad experiences in this blog were also quite young or just out of uni, with no work experience, especially in the tough world of international sales.
I am interested to know more about these companies and the industry but from rational, neutral and structured points of view. I would appreciate if some people who previously worked there or still work there could give some inputs, rather than expressing pure frustration.
In particular, I have found more or less always the same comments related to the following groups of issues. I have focused on the ones that just don’t convince me and add some comments. Thanks a lot for your insights.
– Many comments are related to how pretty / good looking people should be to work for them: well, do you really think it is a surprise that in a sales oriented company (with face to face sales) people have to be good looking and with a “presence”? Do you see many ugly girls selling make up in super markets?
– Many other comments are related to how bad colleagues are. Well, it may depend from each one’s sensibility but in sales jobs, people certainly tend to be more cynical and tough. That may be the sad side of the sales world. If you were working in the trading department of a top-bank, would you expect to find the tender-lovely-pals of your life to exchange kind words and smiles, while petting your teddy bear? Come on guys, mummy is getting old, uni is finished, life is started… If you don’t like it, well, there is nothing bad, just don’t do it.
– Many other comments are on the several brands used by those companies. Many comments refer to this practice as the attempt to sell and resell because of the awful quality of these reports. These comments just don’t convince me: these companies may be evil or not but, realistically, how bad can be a report to still be accepted by “the economists” or NYT? Sure, these newspaper or magazines make a lot of bucks out of ads, but adv can’t be that bad to ruin the reputation of the magazine/newspaper itself: they would not keep on offering the space for ads anymore.
– Moreover, I see several strategic reasons to use several brands. Beside possible fiscal advantages there are sales strategies involved. I give you a couple: 1. One of the many is often employed in “cold sales” (which works well in absence of exact marketing analysis on the Return On the Investment to increase the image of a country). The principle is this: the first brand team contacts the targets and helps them to familiarize with the industry; it may sell or may not. The second brand team coming finds the potential client already aware of the industry and knows the reason of failure or success of the first brand sales team and on them builds a new sales strategy and so on… strange? 2. Moreover, several brands related to the same holding also give a strategic positioning in the market: the market demand for these services tend to be saturated increasing barrier to entry for new comers
– Many comments are related to the need to say lies to sell: can you give precise examples, please? Again, I feel these comments come from people with no experience in sales. In fact, I don’t understand why people should lie to sell an adv space to improve the image of a country. A sales pitch is not a lie: if you sell cookies won’t you tell how good and crispy they are, instead of saying that if you eat too many you are going to have stomach ache?
– Last comment is for Antoine: your adventure is terrible…where did it happen? What did you reply to the ministry when he asked you how much money you were bringing out of the country to end up in jail…?
Thank you,
AK
Hello,
I don’t work for AFA or Media press or similar and I have no reason nor need to be in favor or against those companies. At first sight, I just found fascinating the kind of work they do and I would like to know more.
It is actually true thought that some of those look a bit “strange”…no telephone numbers, vague web sites,…
On the other hand, I read all the past posts and I have also found a lot of anger and naïveté. It really seems to me that many people who expressed their bad experiences in this blog were also quite young or just out of uni, with no work experience, especially in the tough world of international sales.
I am interested to know more about these companies and the industry but from rational, neutral and structured points of view. I would appreciate if some people who previously worked there or still work there could give some inputs, rather than expressing pure frustration.
In particular, I have found more or less always the same comments related to the following groups of issues. I have focused on the ones that just don’t convince me and add some comments. Thanks a lot for your insights.
– Many comments are related to how pretty / good looking people should be to work for them: well, do you really think it is a surprise that in a sales oriented company (with face to face sales) people have to be good looking and with a “presence”? Do you see many ugly girls selling make up in super markets?
– Many other comments are related to how bad colleagues are. Well, it may depend from each one’s sensibility but in sales jobs, people certainly tend to be more cynical and tough. That may be the sad side of the sales world. If you were working in the trading department of a top-bank, would you expect to find the tender-lovely-pals of your life to exchange kind words and smiles, while petting your teddy bear? Come on guys, mummy is getting old, uni is finished, life is started… If you don’t like it, well, there is nothing bad, just don’t do it.
– Many other comments are on the several brands used by those companies. Many comments refer to this practice as the attempt to sell and resell because of the awful quality of these reports. These comments just don’t convince me: these companies may be evil or not but, realistically, how bad can be a report to still be accepted by “the economists” or NYT? Sure, these newspaper or magazines make a lot of bucks out of ads, but adv can’t be that bad to ruin the reputation of the magazine/newspaper itself: they would not keep on offering the space for ads anymore.
– Moreover, I see several strategic reasons to use several brands. Beside possible fiscal advantages there are sales strategies involved. I give you a couple:
1. One of the many is often employed in “cold sales” (which works well in absence of exact marketing analysis on the Return On the Investment to increase the image of a country). The principle is this: the first brand team contacts the targets and helps them to familiarize with the industry; it may sell or may not. The second brand team coming finds the potential client already aware of the industry and knows the reason of failure or success of the first brand sales team and on them builds a new sales strategy and so on… strange?
2. Moreover, several brands related to the same holding also give a strategic positioning in the market: the market demand for these services tend to be saturated increasing barrier to entry for new comers
– Many comments are related to the need to say lies to sell: can you give precise examples, please? Again, I feel these comments come from people with no experience in sales. In fact, I don’t understand why people should lie to sell an adv space to improve the image of a country. A sales pitch is not a lie: if you sell cookies won’t you tell how good and crispy they are, instead of saying that if you eat too many you are going to have stomach ache?
– Last comment is for Antoine: your adventure is terrible…where did it happen? What did you reply to the ministry when he asked you how much money you were bringing out of the country to end up in jail…?
Thank you,
KA
Hi Amy,
I will try to answer your questions objectively.
1- to employ good-looking people: to me, there is no problem with that. In order to sell, it is definitely better to have good looks. If I had to hire sales people I would do exactly the same. The problem comes in the picture when you tell your employees that they should sell by any means, if you see what I mean.
2- bad colleagues: there are good and bad people everywhere. Personaly I kept contact with some ex colleagues who I really appreciate. Most people that were hired at the same level as me were nice and coming from all horizons. On the other hand, management people who have worked for a long time in this type of company were almost all liars and greedy.
3- quality of reports: they have almost no value for the countries themselves and the companies featured in them. The contents are very basic and the looks are average. These reports are not disastrous and as long as AFA or Media Plus or the like PAY to include these reports in the newspapers, the said-newspapers welcome them in their pages. AFA/MP get the money for advertising spaces and do the layout of the reports in house. THen they send it to the newspapers as a whole and pay big money to have them included.
4- strategies: what you say is true. but the first reason why they send different brand names is to avoid getting complains from ministers and business people still in place right away. They would rather wait a few years before sending a team under the same brand name: governments would have changed, so would ambassadors, mayors and most CEO’s. If not they would probably not remember anyway. With regards to fiscal reasons, it doesn’t change anything since all brands are registered in fiscal paradise such as Liechteinstein ou Caiman etc…
5- Lies: examples of common lies –> we are living tomorrow you must sign today; MR X or Y as already signed and because he is so important you should do the same; Mr Minister X or Y asks you to sponsor our report; lies about the amounts the ads are worth in order to get free hotel nights or free car, carry fake press cards and use you “journalist” job as a cover etc…
6- Health care: at media plus we were supposed to pay for our own health care. With regards to people in jail, I remember two employees that ended up in jail in Namibia for counterfeiting minister letters. Don’t know whether they did it on their own or if they were asked to do so.
With regards to carrying money, I personaly had to fly out Africa with about 8000‚Ǩ in cash. To cross the border was not easy, I just managed to get out of this by pretending that I was a big journalist and that they would get problem with their hierarchy etc…
Whether you want to take this job is up to you. If you are young why not? Just be prepared at being bullshited a lot by your management. Don’t trust anybody except people on the same level as yours. To be honest, when a project is a success, the sales people in charge don’t even know why they succeeded. There is a great deal of luck in this job. Nice part is that you will visit exotic places. You will also meet high ranked people but don’t expect anything from them since once the report is out you can’t really turn to them and ask for anything…