There’s been some very interesting activity this month in the comments thread
about Summit Communications. Since I don’t expect anybody to plough through
more than 12,000 words of comments, I thought I’d summarise the discussion here.
And it really is a discussion: people pretty much are who they say they are.
I’ve got a list of their names and IP addresses after the jump if you don’t
believe me. The only time an IP address is repeated is when Marcos Melo, who
is an employee of Alvaro Llaryora, posts from the same IP address as Llaryora.
Which makes perfect sense.
Nearly all of the activity comes from employees or former employees of Summit
Communications or its sister companies. I’m not sure how or why they all seem
to have found my blog entry at the same time, but I assume there’s been some
emailing going on. In any case, the basic Summit Communications modus operandi
definitely emerges from the discussion.
It turns out that Summit Communications is a vehicle set up by a parent company
called AFA Press for the express purpose of selling advertising supplements
in the New York Times. AFA has other, similar companies for other publications:
the one for the Observer in the UK, for instance, is called Images, Words; the
one for USA Today is called United World; the one for the Daily Telegraph in
the UK is called PM Communications, and so on. The true center of operations
for all these companies is Madrid, although they’re mostly incorporated in the
UK.
The owner of all these companies is an Argentine called Alberto Llaryora –
the father of one of my commenters, Alvaro Llaryora. (In Argentine Spanish,
both "ll" and "y" are pronounced as "zh", so think
"zharzhora".)
Why does Llaryora have so many offshore companies, each with a very different
name? (Apart from any money-laundering he may or may not be doing, of course.)
The impression one gets from reading the comments is that it’s very simple:
the people working for these companies are so sleazy and unprofessional that
the governments and companies in the countries buying the advertorials are unlikely
to ever want to work with them a second time. So Llaryora simply sends a team
from a company with a name untarnished in that country instead.
And there’s another reason: the AFA sales team makes no effort whatsoever to
distingish themselves from the publication that they’re going to print the advertorial
in. The fact that each subsidiary works only for a single publication allows
them to say that they are "the exclusive partner of the New York Times"
or somesuch.
In fact, the sales technique at AFA seems to depend on their pretending to
be from the New York Times / USA Today / whoever. The AFA team always
includes a "journalist" who goes around attempting to get interviews
with senior officials and executives in the country, for a report on that country
to be published in the newspaper in question. Obviously, the fact that the report
will be an advertorial is not mentioned, and neither is the fact that the "journalist"
not an employee of, let alone a journalist for, the newspaper.
Similarly, when the advertorial is being sold, it is always sold on the basis
that the number of readers of the advertorial is the same as the number of readers
of the newspaper in question. Most advertisers who want a bound-out supplement
in the Sunday New York Times, say, are well aware that the vast majority of
readers will simply throw that supplement away unread. But AFA sales people
present themselves as selling advertising (little display units within the advertorials)
against New York Times / USA Today editorial with its enormous circulation and
readership numbers.
AFA seems to specialize in employing young, hungry sales people with no previous
experience in the media business. One of them phoned me after being given a
job offer, wanting to find out what I knew about the company; another left a
comment on my blog. The person I talked to had only sales experience well outside
the media industry, but was being offered a job as a "journalist":
writing skills, of course, were unimportant, as the only thing that matters
is making sales. These kids can make a lot of money by lying to advertisers,
and no one ever discourages them from doing so – quite the opposite. They
justify their actions by saying that they’re working in corrupt countries, and
that if you want to make money in such countries you have to be part of that
corrupt system.
Generally, it would seem, the male "journalist" will go through the
motions of interviewing the minister/executive in question; at the end of the
interview, a very pretty female "director" will then approach the
interviewee to buy some advertising against the interview. (Of course, if the
advertising isn’t bought, then the interview won’t appear, but that’s never
mentioned.) In the case of government ministers, the "director" will
ask the minister for a letter giving his "support" to the publication,
and encouraging the companies in that country to cooperate with the reporter.
The minister thinks he’s simply opening doors for the "reporter" to
be able to do his interviews, but of course the "director" helpfully
explains to the executives that in order to cooperate as the minister wants
them to do, they will have to buy advertising.
The technique works so well that former AFA employees have gone on to set up
their own companies doing exactly the same thing: see Vega Media, Impact Media,
and Media Plus, which seems to have an especially low reputation. There’s a
whole sector of these companies, it turns out: Global Press, for instance, run
by Alberto Llaryora’s brother Rodolfo Llaryora, would seem to have the Washington
Post and Fortune Magazine locked up. There certainly seems to be de facto
exclusivity: only one company ever seems to produce advertorials for any given
publication. Does Summit Communications pay the New York Times extra for being
its only advertorial provider? How else can one explain the seeming absence
of any competition in the NYT?
I’m sure that the New York Times, alongside all the other highly-regarded publications
in bed with AFA Press, spends as little time as possible asking about the genesis
of the advertorials which it prints. Just as the millions of people who eat
at McDonald’s really don’t want to know the details of how their meal is made.
This is the real difference between these publications, on the one hand, and
Euromoney, on the other: Euromoney, when it sells supplements, does so under
its own name, and in the knowledge that if the client is unhappy he’ll never
buy another one. The NYT et al don’t sell supplements, they leave that to others,
who are happier to burn their clients because they’ll likely never return to
that country anyway.
I’d be very interested to learn whether New York Times journalists working
in third-world countries ever find themselves battling ministers or executives
who think they’ve dealt with the New York Times in the past, and who have very
bad memories of the whole encounter. Maybe every time they do, they should complain
to the advertising department about the stuff which is being done in the NYT’s
name. That, in turn, might drive AFA Press and its subsidiaries to higher standards
of conduct.
More likely, an increase in the media-savvyness of third world ministers and
executives will force Llaryora and his employees to be more transparent; from
reading the comments on my original post, that might be happening already. Instead
of misleadingly selling an ad against an interview in the New York Times –
something which anybody who knows the NYT knows can never be done – AFA
might start talking more about the usefulness of newspaper supplements in terms
of turning around the image of a tarnished country. Chances are, of course,
that if the people buying into these supplements knew how effective they really
were, they would never take part. But at least some of the sleaziness in the
industry would be minimised.
Commenters and IP addresses after the jump.
| March 20 | Stefan Geens | 85.226.193.223 |
| March 20 | Lance Knobel | 71.249.17.70 |
| April 8 | Ray Corbis | 62.68.61.2 |
| June 1 | Thierry De Pins | 87.217.13.44 |
| July 6 | flimsy | 62.56.236.174 |
| July 7 | Mark | 80.25.234.40 |
| July 7 | Hugh Janus | 83.44.24.179 |
| July 7 | Veronica Fuentes | 83.35.204.167 |
| July 7 | Stefan Geens | 62.253.128.12 |
| July 7 | Renata (aka flimsy) | 62.56.236.174 |
| July 7 | Southampton’s Number 7 | 195.167.131.33 |
| July 7 | Stefan Geens | 62.253.128.12 |
| July 7 | Southampton’s Number 7 | 195.167.131.33 |
| July 7 | Stefan Geens | 62.253.128.12 |
| July 7 | bihboon | 81.192.191.75 |
| July 7 | Jorge Rosi | 83.34.209.175 |
| July 7 | G. | 69.194.13.47 |
| July 9 | Clemente Ordierez | 81.52.161.74 |
| July 10 | Alvaro Llaryora | 217.127.229.150 |
| July 10 | cause for concern | 86.140.215.182 |
| July 10 | Marcos Melo | 217.127.229.150 |
| July 12 | Valerie Favier | 83.202.97.233 |
| July 12 | Southampton’s Number 7 | 195.167.131.33 |
| July 12 | Marcos Melo | 217.127.229.150 |
| July 12 | Zeb | 195.172.183.10 |
| July 12 | valerie favier | 83.202.97.233 |
| July 12 | PomKa | 62.135.101.197 |
| July 12 | RAQUEL PICORNELL | 212.0.149.213 |
| July 13 | Benj (aka bihboon) | 196.217.242.241 |
| July 14 | Flavio G | 82.205.215.177 |
| July 14 | G | 69.194.13.54 |
| July 14 | Romeo | 200.31.172.4 |
| July 16 | Clemente Ordierez | 83.53.158.219 |
| July 17 | thermidor | 81.202.46.133 |
| July 19 | Moh | 196.200.83.51 |
| July 19 | Benj (aka bihboon) | 196.217.240.125 |
| July 19 | james | 86.1.67.234 |
| July 21 | jj | 212.80.189.229 |
Hi,
Yeahbaby, thank you for your comments. I found them objective and it is definitely interesting (and sad/scarring) stuff…
Well, it seems the evidences brought to this blog are gonna create some issues to these guys.
Even thought, at the end there won’t be any major consequence for their biz. A potential client may end up reading this blog but do you expect that the leaders of a third world country maybe with years of war and genocides would really care about the “dark side” of AFA while getting the chance to adv in NYT? On the other hand, would NYT or The Economist stop selling ads to them? etc…
Let’s be realistic, aside discouraging some young kids to work for them, and hopefully to improve their practices, at the end nothing will happen.
how is “concerned” doing with the attorney, by the way?
KA
Hi Amy,
You are absolutely right–> nothing will happen to them at all. On the top of it, there is more and more companies of this type that open year after year.
I know one publication though which is worth considering. They have a real value in terms of business analysis and information. They publish full reports about emerging countries and their main economic assets, political situation etc. Indeed there is advertising inserted but when it is done well and when it is worth the price, there is nothing wrong with it. The company I am talking about is Oxford Business Group. They have a website under the same name. I have never worked for them nor talked to anybody that had, but judging from the reports it is very qualitative. Nothing to do with AFA, Media Plus and the like, which again are pure scam.
In a few words, these companies are disgusting because they sell useless ads? I don’t know where do you come from, but working in Italy for the vast majority of the companies doesn’t seem much better. Work conditions sucks, salaries are too low and people have no chance to improve their careers.
I will have an interview with one of these companies very soon, and this post make me think a lot about meeting them or not. No way to have a positive experience? I love to travel and this job looked like a great chance, but now I really don’t know what to do…
In a few words, these companies are disgusting because they sell useless ads? I don’t know where do you come from, but working in Italy for the vast majority of the companies doesn’t seem much better. Work conditions suck, salaries are too low and people have no chance to improve their careers.
I will have an interview with one of these companies very soon, and this post make me think a lot about meeting them or not. No way to have a positive experience? I love to travel and this job looked like a great chance, but now I really don’t know what to do…
In a few words, these companies are disgusting because they sell useless ads? I don’t know where do you come from, but working in Italy for the vast majority of the companies doesn’t seem much better. Work conditions suck, salaries are too low and people have no chance to improve their careers.
I will have an interview with one of these companies very soon, and this post make me think a lot. No way to have a positive experience? I love to travel and this job looked like a great chance, but now I really don’t know what to do…
In a few words, these companies are disgusting because they sell useless ads? I don’t know where do you come from, but working in Italy for the vast majority of the companies doesn’t seem much better. Work conditions suck, salaries are too low and people have no chance to improve their careers.
I will have an interview with one of these companies very soon, and this post make me think a lot. No way to have a positive experience? I love to travel and this job looked like a great chance, but now I really don’t know what to do…
Marco, I have friends living in Italy and I am aware of the current economic difficulties of the country.
I am looking into these kind of companies myself, as I reckon that the nature of their job is still very interesting. Certainly, they are not the best companies to work for but I still reckon you can gain fantastic personal and professional experience. Moreover, considering the economic conjuncture in Italy, they could help you to project your career internationally improving your otherwise (sorry to say) poor working condition in Italy. They will exploit you, you will exploit them and in a little while, you will start looking for a job somewhere else strong of the international experience and of a salary of reference which you would not have got in your own country.
If you go for AFA: they normally sell ads in team of 2, 1 guy and 1 girl. Currently, they are running out of guys, so you have more chances…
For what I have heard the assessment is just ridiculous: it seems a speed dating. 1 or 2 HR with watery eyes ask to groups of 4/6 people at a time to present themselves in 2 minutes in front of everyone. In the second test (same assessment), you have to present something else.
they assess 4/6 people all together in half an hour (the meeting is about one hour in total, half of which is used to present the company). In such a quick choice, I reckon they want to (very) quickly identify face to face young, good looking people, self confident but recognized as easily “manageable”. If you speed-date well, you will go to the training center.
hope it helps. good luck,
KA
Thank you very much Kat Amy! That’s exactly what I supposed to do.
What is the base salary and commissions (on average) for these jobs? Is it tax free money? Where do you stay when you do projects in different countries?
I think the basic salary is from 800€/month at Media Plus up to 1500€/month at AFA (not sure of that one). Expenses in the countries are paid by the company and one team member is in charge of the accounting. If you are in charge, smart enough and not so honest, you can take advantage of this.
Can’t remember the commission percentage (5 to 10% I guess).
At Media Plus, they gave us a very low budget to stay at cheap hotels for the beginning of the project. Later on, the idea was to secure barter deals which means exchange advertising spaces for hotel nights. One page is worth, for example, 60 000€ and then you calculate the number of nights you can stay for free according to the hotel rate for one night. You can do this with services apartments as well.
You can also do it for other industries: airlines, car rental, telecom etc.
Hello Yeahbaby, your insights in this blog are just excellent, thank you for sharing!
I have a few more questions for you, more on the “after Media plus”…
Once you left the company, where did you get a new job (industry/sector) and at what level (entry level again or more senior)?
Was it hard to make the move from this very niche industry to your new job?
Moreover, it seems that at Media Plus the salary mainly comes out of commissions and cover of living costs. Normally, in the job market (I think about headhunters in London) one of the very first questions they ask you is: “what is your current fixed salaries and what are bonus/benefits?”. With a low fixed salary, even you make good commissions (as 800$ is) it seems unlikely to me that you can get a good-stable paid job in London (e.g.: +70K pounds), for instance, unless you sell something for a company which employs the same model than MP (low fix salary, and with final pay mostly made out of commissions).
What do you reckon? Thank you to let me know,
KA
Hi Amy,
It took me about a year to find a new job. It is true that I refused a few opportunities as I didn’t really liked what they offered. The job I found was through an old friend of mine in a very innovative telecom company. The package was 50K‚Ǩ. Half fixed and half OTE, but the targets were reachable. I have been lucky to still have this friend among my network because otherwise I would probably still be looking for something… Companies or recruiters tend not to understand why we would give up a job that seems so interesting. they only see what MP/AFA want to sell you: travel, high ranked interlocutors etc. They don’t see the low pay (fixed) and the dark side of the industry.
It is true also that having worked for a company with low basic income will lead you to another low basic job. It is difficult to climb up the ladder in that matter. Nowadays I am considering a new position and the revenues will reach 70K€. 45K fixed and 25K OTE.
Any advice I would give for the after MP/AFA is to stress on the sales environment and the resistance to pressure, ability to remain positive and goal-oriented. I don’t really see any other possibility than sales position. Project management maybe? Recruitment industry would be alright as well, as it is a sales job in the end, with a need for interpersonal characters with varied experience and good language skills.
Hi Amy,
It took me about a year to find a new job. It is true that I refused a few opportunities as I didn’t really liked what they offered. The job I found was through an old friend of mine in a very innovative telecom company. The package was 50K‚Ǩ. Half fixed and half OTE, but the targets were reachable. I have been lucky to still have this friend among my network because otherwise I would probably still be looking for something… Companies or recruiters tend not to understand why we would give up a job that seems so interesting. they only see what MP/AFA want to sell you: travel, high ranked interlocutors etc. They don’t see the low pay (fixed) and the dark side of the industry.
It is true also that having worked for a company with low basic income will lead you to another low basic job. It is difficult to climb up the ladder in that matter. Nowadays I am considering a new position and the revenues will reach 70K€. 45K fixed and 25K OTE.
Any advice I would give for the after MP/AFA is to stress on the sales environment and the resistance to pressure, ability to remain positive and goal-oriented. I don’t really see any other possibility than sales position. Project management maybe? Recruitment industry would be alright as well, as it is a sales job in the end, with a need for interpersonal characters with varied experience and good language skills.
My friend sent me this site and I have to say I am so glad I got to read this… thank you to all of you for putting this information online!
I have just passed the first round of interviews and have been invited to the “selective training” session in Madrid next week. After reading all of this I feel I can make a much more well informed decision rather than stepping blindly into a world I know next to nothing about- what with all my youngness, naivety and none-experience?!
I couldn’t help thinking all along that the process was far too easy and that it seemed a little too good to be true. that said (even though I know I am young and “naive) I’m not THAT naive- I know a career in the sales IS a “dirty” job. Meaning I know that of course they make things appear better than they are and it acquires a high level of bullshit artisting. I kinda knew it wasn’t all clean. Even the fact of the ‘pretty people’ doesn’t surprise me.. I’m sure it doesn’t u.. Of course they want young pretty people to be the face of their product and sell their name…this comment isn’t really newsworthy or worth making a fuss over…
However reading all of that was really great. It has made me truly more aware. I will still go to Madrid, even if out of nothing more than the reason that I paid a hell of lot for my plane ticket 😉 I will listen to all they tell me, and I will even play their game. But like the one girl says, I will be aware of them and I wont trust them. I know my morals and standards and I know I’m more of a life lover, people lover, free spirit kinda person that is why I was worried from the beginning about a job in sales… I am willing (up till this point at least) to learn and adapt to the “saleswoman” idea, but I know I will never truly change. I am too strongly built and have been raised well enough to know my standards.
I will go and I will listen to all they have to say. And if I’m still interested at the end of the week I will think about taking on the job. It is still a fantastic opportunity – at least I think so. The idea to travel the world and make money still intrigues me, but, of course, having read all of this I now know for sure that that may come with a slight price to pay.
My only very big concern is that whole “by any means necessary” line…. however, even then you can never be FORCED to do anything you don’t want to. Nowhere does anyone in this blog say they were FORCED to do anything. (Please correct me if I am wrong)
My other concern is the matter of if they will take care of us- meaning health insurance, travel, accommodation, any problems we may get into when abroad… that is my only really big problem I see here.
If I do get accepted and choose to work there- in worst-case scenario lets say I hate it- I will just quit. By the sounds of it, it seems they are well prepared for that anyway…
Thank you again for all this helpful information, rest assured you have all definitely made an impact on my decision.
Hi margot,
I think we’re going to meet in Madrid next week. I have the same concerns as you about the job. Let’s see what happen…
In the worst (worst?) case we will drink some beers and eat tortillas and jamon.
Hi Margot,
I can predict that you are going to take this job, convincing yourself that after all it is not so bad, that you are going to travel, that you are going to make money etc. Nothing wrong with that. Just remember one thing: if you are not made to sell in the first place, you will never sell well or feel good at it.
I wish you to enjoy this experience and have a lot of fun.
Hey I am curious about Media Plus because I have an interview next week. I really appreciate all the comments. I just have one specific question: salary is approximately 800 euro but how much are commissions, on average? Thanks!
Your comments opened my eyes. I was suspicious from the beginning. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is, right? Nevertheless, I’d like to attend the interview to see how they really operate. If anybody with genuine experience has something to say about recent company activity, please post. Thanks!
hey marco,
I totally agree with you. I’m planning to go and give it a shot, check it all out. if anything enjoy a little warmer weather and some tapas?!
see you there. At the end of the week I will have to make up my own mind about this JOB and everything that comes with it. I’m glad I’ve been so lucky as to hear both sides of the story first before making any life changing decisions.
YEAHBABY: i agree with you- if Im not built for sales then I wont like it… I will just have to go and find all that out for myself
Margot,
keep us posted. You should be back before I even interview, so some fresh outlook would be greatly appreciated.
Hi there
I think I am writing on here because I would like to receive some more…I guess inside info about AFA group. As far as my understanding is concerned AFA hires pretty girls to be able to sell their product in third world countries. Some of you have commented that this a a bad thing, some of you that in Sales looks are part of the job. Regarding to the latter..whilst I was at university I had to do the odd brainless job ..I.E. working as a cocktail waitress in a westend club..and yes you had to have a certain kinda look..is that necessarily bad? I guess no as it is a given! My friend worked at the reception of an investment bank..and yes she is very pretty. Has she been used as a “pin up” girl for a mainly male dominated industry who will have the pleasure to look at “something nice” when they enter or leave the building?
I guess the point that I am making is that, as sad as it is society works like that and people who are attractive are maybe more approachable or maybe put into sales jobs because of that reason.
This is only one aspect of the job! A very shallow one I presume. In terms of work ethic..isnߥt any kind of sales agressive? Even in the most subtle way?
Further reading that they make money in a dodgy way…well I just mention the scandal at Credit Suisse recently.Banking..a very reputable industry, Oxbridge background in most cases…yet many people with no morals. Although maybe more likely to be discovered…..
And how much money can you really make at AFA group? As thay pay you in dollars..who wants to earn dollars in this day and age? How much can you really make in comissions? Is is a short term work industry? In case you do make as much money as some of you point out ..where can you progress from where you left AFA group?
I would appreciate to read more comments of people who work at AFA and people who left AFA! As I would like to form a personal picture on how dodgy they really are, as for me I could find pros and cons in both type of comments, pro AFA and contra AFA.
Thank you in advance
Miriam
Miriam, as you, I was interested in having fair (pros and cons) points of view about AFA and co. (see my comments “Kat Amy march 10th 2008)
Yeahbaby gave (March 11th 2008) already some fair insights about Media Plus (not AFA, true, but fair insights).
Take also a look at those.
Remember this – the only reason you will join this company is by weakness, the weakness of yourself to say no. If you want to do something good with yor life and your talents then turn away now. Do not be mis-guided with the illusions that this company/job will show you. You will not make a difference to the countries you work in, you are not important to anyone outside the company (and arguably inside).
When you are young you can be mis-lead into doing things.I made the decision to leave as I knew I would never be able to forget what I did. Why did I do it? For excitement, adventure, money…if you want these things then find a better way for yourself…because if you are talented enough to fool the people who choose you; then you are talented enough to do whatever you want.
Personally I left because to pursue a ‘real’ career in the media. There is no reason you can too.
Hi “Who dares wins…”,
your post was interesting…was your comment referring to any agency in this industry or just to the agency you worked for (Which one?)
Thanks,
KA
Still, no concrete numbers on these jobs? Did anyone make at least 50,000 pounds a year? Without health care and without career advancement if you decide to leave the job, the only incentive left for the job is money (it better pay a lot of money through sales etc. else it’s not worth it). I mean, if you can earn 50-100K pounds a year through commissions, then this job shouldn’t be that bad.
Also, why don’t you form connections with the people you interview for the ad space(maybe they can help you with future employment). For example, if interviewing with President of Namibia and you have an interest in African trade, it will be an opportunity for you to get his contact information for future projects/ideas.
Bottomline, every corporation will use you, they don’t care about you or your family, they only care about how much money you are bringing in. Sometimes, I think a Sales job is not that bad because you get what you bring in, whereas other jobs, your work can contribute to a significant amount of money to the company but you are only getting say 1%. I think everything should be 50-50. The 5-10% at Media Plus is low.
If anyone has an interest in International Trade let’s form a group, different people, different locations, it might not be media we will end up selling, but I’m sure we can sell something. Great minds always come up with something.
I have an idea of capturing a significant part of the world market 20 years from now(what industry?-I have mine, what is yours? We can come together and do something).
I like money because it signifies freedom (free to roam the world if i want to, free to feed a family). I don’t care about material things, or the so-called finer things in life, I just like to be free, don’t want to be in a cubicle, if I don’t want to, I want to determine my own destiny. I mean why worry about not having enough money by the time you retire? Why let someone determine how much you are worth, if I want to work for peanuts I will work for a non-profit at least I know my work has an impact on the right person (people always come first, never screw over your fellow man for money, that’s my believe). I can never sell a family a mortgage knowing very well in decades it would lead to their financial demise (some mortgage lenders did this in the U.S. because they put money before people).
Why do we end up doing things we don’t wanna do? It’s easy to follow a job that has been created rather than creating your own. If you believe in putting people first, and believe that you can still succeed in business without screwing over people then let’s form an international company together. I’m not gonna guarantee it’s going to be easy, there is no short cuts in life, especially if you wanna do it the right way. I have talent, so do you.
So, who wants to form a group? This is the first step into a potential global company. We can decide whether we are going to provide services or offer services to people on a global scale. This is all brainstorming. I have ideas already, just hear me out, and I will hear you out. But ethics first, we will have to verify each others background etc to make sure we don’t have any scumbags(maybe a facebook.com group will do).
JJ
JJ, for my understanding and some research in average a sales kid in the industry sales ~800K/year in a lucky year. This means about 40-80K $ (~20-40K pounds) with no benefits, nor pension scheme, no taxes paid (and somewhere you have to pay them). If I am wrong with my understanding of the figure, please someone corrects me.
The second part of your post made me smile and I think most of the people in business (with some experience) would have just not replied. However, the general concept of the network (is this the key idea?) may be interesting even if there are already companies with multi million $ turnover doing that. Plus, while developing the idea you may want to start looking at the left side of Porter 5 forces: barriers to entry…
In any case I have got my philosophies too and I believe that brave people with ideas and balls have always made themselves wealthier than most of their peers… I like your attitude, please drop me a personal mail to girlkatami@yahoo.com giving a brief idea of your profile -no need for details- but most importantly why you posted your idea in this blog (which has nothing to do with it).
I will come back to you very quickly. Thanks,
KA
saw that ‘yeahbaby’ recommended the Oxford Business Group in a recent post. I used to work for them and can say that they are a bit different than what I understand to be the industry standard. At the very least, many of my ex-colleagues came from these other companies (Media Plus, Summit, etc.) but I didn’t know a single OBG employee to leave to join another ‘industry’ firm.
OBG’s base salaries are higher, basic health care is included and the company’s product — a 200 page economic report — is what it is, and on display for the customer to see.
The only fudging I ever saw came from quoted circulation figures, which I strongly suspect were exaggerated to justify some staggering advertising prices. On the editorial side, there’s a definite accentuation of the positive, no matter who dire the situation in the country in question (though at least OBG deals only with countries that can reasonably be called ’emerging’) and who advertises does make a difference in what interviews are published, companies mentioned, etc.
And like these other companies, it is still a high-pressure sales role, and you’ll be working under questionable visa and tax regimes for extended periods of time. That’s fine for some folks, and was for me for a while, but I’m happy to be legal again.
Hi JAS, thanks for posting about OBG. I have always been curious about this company and never came across anybody who had worked there so far. Your insights are interesting. It seems that after all it is not so different, just a bit better.
To everybody who’s interested in this kind of business, I would suggest something –> just do it yourself. Gather enough money to remain in an emerging country for let’s say 6 months. Plan your trip very well, including placing a deal with a major press title (this would give you the right to produce a report for them). Once you start approaching governments and top companies be honest about it by explaining that your report has to be funded by advertising. Emphasize the fact that you are the only person in the company, the one and only contact, the one that is responsible for the editorial and business aspects, the one that is accountable for the good and the bad. What I noticed when I was working in that job is that people were not enclined to trust people that just come and go. Make sure that people know where you stay while in the country, that they can find you if they need to. Spend time with the people that spend money on your report to make them feel safe about the quality of your work and therefore about their investment.
There is definitely a good way to conduct this business and to produce something qualitative. Once your first report is ready to be published you’ll have enough money to start a second one etc…
Re: Suggesting doing it yourself
It’s not a bad idea, as at least then you’d be selling for yourself. Thing is, I know from my experience that more than a few people have already moved from the types of companies discussed here and begun ‘media companies’ of their own.
You see them jetting around low-budget from developing country to developing country, with an eye on which teams from which companies are in what country at any given time.
I find that most of these types have been HIGHLY motivated “lifers” in the industry — the kind of people who would try to sell ice to eskimos. So I’d suspect the competition will be brutal — in an increasingly crowded sphere — for anyone having a go alone.
Hi everyone and thank you for these VERY USEFUL posts.
I won’t go to my interview with InterCom in Paris (followed by a four-day-training in Madrid); I guess this is a sub-cie of AFA Press as this is the only Media Sales Cie I have contacted.
I’m a bit disappointed as I thought I found the ideal opportunity to travel and earn money at the mean time, but I was a bit suspicious…
I advise everyone to always check the ethic of a Cie thanks to forums like this one.
I won’t develop more than you did since everything is so obvious now.
Thank you!
SoSo
Hi everyone and thank you for these VERY USEFUL posts.
I won’t go to my interview with InterCom in Paris (followed by a four-day-training in Madrid); I guess this is a sub-cie of AFA Press as this is the only Media Sales Cie I have contacted.
I’m a bit disappointed as I thought I found the ideal opportunity to travel and earn money at the mean time, but I was a bit suspicious…
I advise everyone to always check the ethic of a Cie thanks to forums like this one.
I won’t develop more than you did since everything is so obvious now.
Thank you!
SoSo
hello everyone,
Hereߥs some real information about Media Plus, I joint the company for three months last summer and then quit.
About the salary, the first two to three weeks you are on training in belgium and receive no money. Only lunch is provided during this period, you will have to pay for breakfast, dinner and weekends yourself. After this training you will be send to a country for a month to work as a trainee. During this period you will get paid 800 euroߥs. If you make a sale during your trainee period you will get an extra 800 euroߥs payd every month from the next month. However, these 800 euro are a prepayment on your commision. Word has it that if you donߥt make your targets they will still let you keep your money but officialy you will have to pay it back if you donߥt make the targets. It is possible but donߥt count on making much more then these 1600 euroߥs.
About the company, well I quit so it isnߥt gonna be a pretty story. Iߥm dutch and was recruited in Holland, great stories about travelling and buckloads of money lured me in to this job. I have to say that I had a pretty good time because you are around nice young people. I have a lot of sales experience and have to say that the training is good. The CEO Thieu Cuipers is a smart men and a great speaker. His wife Angie gave us the training and I found it very usefull. However the people in the back office are the problem. They terrorise you when you are on a project and are very rude to personel. They where the reason for me to quit, to many lying bastards who only care about money and not about people. If you are really independant, you have patience and strong you might make it here. But beware, it is not the dream job they tell you during the recruitment days. Think of it this way. They have about 60 consultants working for them and recruit 10 to 15 new ones every month, however the number of consultants is not growing because so many quit each month. Maybe I have a low standard because Iߥm used to work in Europe but for me the working hours (from 9 am to 11 pm) where very hard.
I hope I gave some honest and usefull information, if anyone wants to know anything just contact me on dosse@live.nl
Hey folks:
I’m a journalist (yes, a real one) interested in doing some more reporting for a feature on the advertorial business.
If any of you with personal stories of this business would be available for interview, please shoot me an e-mail at the.source1@hotmail.com.
I know most of the information here is negative, but I’m interested in all sides of this business, so please anyone feel free to contact me.
Thanks much,
Hi all,
I applied to both Vega Media and SML Strategic Media before reading this very interesting blog. I have heard a lot about Media Plus and InterCom. Can someone tell me if SML is affiliated with AFA? And, has anyone ever worked for Vega Media? I’m a little disappointed to hear all of the negative stories surrounding working for these groups, and hopefully I’ll find a job with travel for an ethical company someday. Thanks!
Hello,
This was blog is so useful I really don’t know what to say but praises. I also applied before I read this blog and now I’m not sure if I should go on the interview. The company is Global Business Reports. http://www.gbreports.com
Does anyone know anything about this company? Please if you do, give some info since a lot of things are on stake.
Thank you,
cheers
Susan
very very useful website and I only wish that it had been about when I joined MP.
things that concerned me.. and why i left in the end, were the tourism visa and having money put through my personal account. in legal terms the company support that you have is very loose. you’re in a foreign country but really on paper you’re on your own. i was both silly and young and it took me a little while to realise that this was totally shady. luckily on my projects i met good business people that gave me sound advice. and well i grew up very quickly!
in their defence MP don’t force you to do anything. you don’t lie about who you represent (you may not out and out explain the complex network of companies that you work for, or that your aim is the sale and you couldn’t give a fig about the interview but you don’t say you work for the TV channel/ print publication) and they don’t exploit the looks of their sales people any more than any other reputable sales company.
the benefits, the travel, the people you meet, and well the business people you presented to. you can only learn from such experiences. but staying a long time with the company is a bad idea because explaining it on your CV is hard!
but in hindsight i would not have worked for the company. there are other opportunities out there for well educated ambitious people who want to travel!
i would ask people who have had bad experiecnes though to contact their universities and just explain what happened to them. uni’s should not be promoting such companies to their students
very very useful website and I only wish that it had been about when I joined MP.
i would not recommend joining them. you’re selling a rag.
but things that concerned me.. and why i left in the end, were the tourism visa and having money put through my personal account. in legal terms the company support that you have is very loose. you’re in a foreign country but really on paper you’re on your own. i was both silly and young and it took me a little while to realise that this was totally shady. luckily on my projects i met good business people that gave me sound advice. and well i grew up very quickly!
in their defence MP don’t force you to do anything. you don’t lie about who you represent (you may not out and out explain the complex network of companies that you work for, or that your aim is the sale and you couldn’t give a fig about the interview but you don’t say you work for the TV channel/ print publication) and they don’t exploit the looks of their sales people any more than any other reputable sales company.
the benefits, the travel, the people you meet, and well the business people you presented to. you can only learn from such experiences. but staying a long time with the company is a bad idea because explaining it on your CV is hard!
but in hindsight i would not have worked for the company. there are other opportunities out there!
i would ask people who have had bad experiecnes though to contact their universities and just explain what happened to them. uni’s should not be promoting such companies to their students
very very useful website and I only wish that it had been about when I joined MP.
i would not recommend joining them. you’re selling a rag.
but things that concerned me.. and why i left in the end, were the tourism visa and having money put through my personal account. in legal terms the company support that you have is very loose. you’re in a foreign country but really on paper you’re on your own. i was both silly and young and it took me a little while to realise that this was totally shady. luckily on my projects i met good business people that gave me sound advice. and well i grew up very quickly!
in their defence MP don’t force you to do anything. you don’t lie about who you represent (you may not out and out explain the complex network of companies that you work for, or that your aim is the sale and you couldn’t give a fig about the interview but you don’t say you work for the TV channel/ print publication) and they don’t exploit the looks of their sales people any more than any other reputable sales company.
the benefits, the travel, the people you meet, and well the business people you presented to. you can only learn from such experiences. but staying a long time with the company is a bad idea because explaining it on your CV is hard!
but in hindsight i would not have worked for the company. there are other opportunities out there!
i would ask people who have had bad experiecnes though to contact their universities and just explain what happened to them. uni’s should not be promoting such companies to their students
Susan,
I have heard of Global Business Reports. They are based in Istanbul, and run by a couple of English blokes named Mungo and Rupert. Having known a few ex and current GBR employees it seems to me that it’s much like most of the other operations. Sales and advertorial — the lot. I’ve never heard GBR getting slagged off on par with the likes of Media Plus and AFA, though a lot of colleagues at my old company — Oxford Business Group — came from GBR.
For what it’s worth, I’d say go to the interview and see what you think. Ask a lot of questions, consider the comments here, and use your own judgement in the end.
Hi JAZ,
Thx a lot for the info! I did go on the interview and it went well. The guy said it was a sales position right at start. I’ve made it to the second around – a second interview which still has to take place. To me it seems that this company might be different from the others because they sell ads in trade magazines and they operate in different niche industries where the ads and reports could really serve their purpose. However, I’m not sure, you can never tell until you start working. However, i’m interested in how they treat their employees and clients- did you perhaps heard from ex or current GBR employees about their treatment? Is there any illegal accounts, scams and other stuff going on? or the management is honest?
I’ve also heard about Oxford Business Group and I’ve also sent them my CV so we’ll see what happens. To me it seems that Oxford Business Group might be the best in this industry, what do you think? you worked for them…why did you leave if I may ask? Any good tips you could give me about what they are looking for? what’s it like on the interview? And if the management is honest regarding their employees and clients?
Thanx, I’m sorry I asked a lot of questions but I would really appreciate if you could answer them when you get a chance cause I’m trying to make the right decision here.
Cheers
Susan
Hi Susan,
Congratulations on the interview going well. I think you’re right that the focus on niche trade publications increases the relevance of GBR’s reports, but at the end of the day the reports will be clouded by who has advertised and who has not. While that’s not uncommon in mainstream publications, it should not be the principal deciding factor in editorial decisions, which it invariably is in the ‘industry.’
I couldn’t say about how they treated their employees. Seemed to me a pretty bog-standard ‘industry’ story. One female seller and one male journalist, pretty high turnover,lot of pressure and had a short time to produce results — the lot.
I agree that OBG are among the best of the lot. They are trying to be more legit, professional and, slowly, more authoritative in their publications. A google search turns up a LOT more references to their publications than it did when I worked for them — that’s a good sign (or perhaps a sad commentary on the media today, but I digress).
You also work about six months on each project so there’s less moving around, more time to cultivate sales, etc.
Still, there are ‘industry’ tendencies: sales mattering before any editorial consideration, fussiness about holiday, and lots of pressure on teams — which can lead to misrepresentations and some selling out of editorial to the highest bidder.
Frankly, I didn’t mind the selling out so much; I hated more the Soviet way that us on the lowest ranks had to deny that that’s what we were doing — subversion radars were always on, it seemed. In fact there were lots of double standards in the field resulting from the absolute authority of the sales girls in-country, which could often make things quite difficult for everyone else in the field.
I left partially because of that hierarchy (good salespeople do not always make good managers), but even more because I wanted to work legally (not on a tourist visa), in a more career-track position, closer to home.
I hope that’s a balanced view for you. I don’t regret having worked in this industry, but I don’t miss it, either.
Hi!!
First of all Im very impress with all your comments!
I was sad because AFA group didnt hire me but now…
To be honest I had a good impresion of the company, people was kind and all what they told us sounds normal to me, except because they’re not clear and serious (They tell to the participants that they will be contact either they fail or continue in the selection procces, and you can still waiting!) Thats is not serious at all if you consider that the mayority of the participants just come to Madrid for the selection process and they are paying a lot of expenses for nothing!
I would like to add that I dont think they are trying to hire just beautifull girls, maybe they prefer beautifull girls rather than not to beautifull as long as they fulfil other skills (maintly good communication skills) If not (Im not conceited, just honest) they had hired me!
Maybe AFA is not the best place to work but maybe is the sector and not the company… I dont really know!
I hope more people add relevant information!
Cheers
YoYo
OBG is legit and more transparent. they provided me a contract, while MP didn’t. OBG in the country i am in is rather reputable. the people here don’t burn their bridges, unlike MP where, based on my experience, have been labeled as a scam by a certain PR agency here. the MP people i worked with were nice (save for that douchebag of a regional director that we had) especially this girl who was managing us — awesome manager, really cheerful despite the difficulty they were having in this country’s very suspicious culture.
Hi Jas,
Thanks so much for sharing your experience and useful information. I absolutely agree that the editorial should come first before any sale and it is sad if they give preference of one over another.
yeah, i’m wondering if I would be the right one for the sales position. I’m more interested in the editorial part of work and the fact that I am a girl who is there only to sell, is not professional and misleading. So I don’t know, I will see how my 2nd interview goes and then if I get it, I will toss a coin:)) just kidding, but yes.. I have to think really hard if this would be for me or not. There are a lot of pluses but also a lot of minuses. Maybe if this job would lead me to something bigger, more editorial travel oriented, I would take it. Thanks again for posting the info. I might bug you later if I have more questions:)
Cheers
Susan
Hello everybody I recently assisted to the assesment for AFA press excecutive sales consultant. I passed the first individual interiew, went on to a group interview and did not pass…. I did not read about this site before going to the interview, but the person conducting it, Saturnino, a spanish guy told everybody in the room about this site. Of course I got asked to leave after the first presentation excersise… I was quite shocked because together with the other 4 girls that were asked to leave, we were the ones with degrees, we have excellente points of view… so my question is, do they really want to hire idiots? people with out common sense or personal opinions? I really want this job, therefore I will apply again once there is another opening… but please be honest, is it really what this blog says? What is the sallary?
Hi Girl,
I don’t really see how you couldn’t get this job… to be honest, the questions they ask and the situations they put you in are so obviously oriented that answers should come naturally… just be positive and a good communicator. I don’t know about your looks but this is definitely more important than degrees or arguments. If after reading all the comments posted on this blog you still want this job seems a bit strange to me. But again, there are plenty of other companies where you can apply: United Press, Vega Media etc… Getting a job in this industry is way easier than in regular companies.
Hello everybody,
I have worked for media plus appr 4 years. It was my first job and i learned a lott. If I see all your (negative) comments and worries i just dont understand why you are even thinking of taking a job like that. Go and work in the town you were born in at the local supermarket. If you are young and you want to explore the world and get lots of sales experience GO FOR IT. Yes I also had bad expierences in the field and no I did not die so Yesit made me stronger. Media plus gave me a great job and a lott of experience I still can use today. If anyone needs possitive feedback just drop aline.
kind regards
Robert
Hello everybody,
I have worked for media plus appr 4 years. It was my first job and i learned a lott. If I see all your (negative) comments and worries i just dont understand why you are even thinking of taking a job like that. Go and work in the town you were born in at the local supermarket. If you are young and you want to explore the world and get lots of sales experience GO FOR IT. Yes I also had bad expierences in the field and no I did not die so Yesit made me stronger. Media plus gave me a great job and a lott of experience I still can use today. If anyone needs possitive feedback just drop aline.
kind regards
Robert
Hi there,
I worked for AFA Press during one month. Before I started I had been invited in a fancy hotel in Brussels and after that, AFA Press invited me for a one week training in Madrid. I really enjoyed the recruitment part. I met nice people with whom I am still in contact. After I had been selected I left for Ghana. I had a wonderful time there eventhough I left AFA PRESS one month later. The reason why I left had nothing to do with the company. As a lot of people say in the blog nobody is forced to do what in some people’s eyes is maybe wrong. People to whom you sell advertisement know how the business works because this business is not new for them and I assure you that nobody is forcing influent people to sign for the product. As a sales person you are just trying in selling advertisement like any other sales person does. For me AFA Press gave me a great opportunity. I discovered a really nice country and I met nice people. It’s only due to some personal problems that I left AFA because I felt myself more useful back home. The good thing is that AFA give young people great opportunities which another company would only give after 15 years of experience. From the start you stay in nice places and you travel around to the most exotic countries. For people enjoying this kind of life style it is only positive. You can leave the company within a short notice. So you will never be forced to stay somewhere if you are not enjoying what you are doing. For AFA it is also really important to have happy employees that enjoy what they are doing. For me it has only been positive.
Hope this info can help you.
Kind regards,
Benoît
All in all I believe this is very much a personal experience. Don’t expect too much from the companies/people you would work for nor from the job/money itself. It might work very well for you as it might not. Don’t forget there is a great deal of luck in this industry, probably as much as hard work. Most people that have conducted successful projects don’t really know why it has worked so well: probably good networking, proper timing or right newspaper title. If you feel like giving it a go, if you are young and if you are ready to remain positive whatsoever, I would suggest you to follow your intuition. You may get very nice memories, meet cool people (co-workers), and get some interesting experience.